Hey Friends!
(This might get a little technical for some, but I thought I’d share with you all where my head’s been at with my veggie oil truck since it died a couple months ago.)
Well, I think I figured out what is wrong with my truck. Here’s the story:
It died on the freeway a couple months ago and I had it towed to my studio. I had gotten a lot of water in my veggie oil from a collection at a restaurant where the lid was off the barrel in the rain, so my first thought was just a fuel problem. But switching to biodiesel, and changing all the filters didn’t solve the problem, plus now the engine wasn’t cranking at normal speed, it was really slow.
I replaced the starter and checked the batteries, cables and connections, but it was still turning over too slowly, plus there was no fuel reaching the engine. The mechanical fuel pump was working, (I had fuel coming out at the filter) but nothing was coming out of the injector lines when I cracked them open.
So my first guess was the injection pump, so I had to remove the intake manifold and all the fuel lines to pull the pump, which I thought would be really hard but I’ve been taking it in stages. Last week I took off the intake manifold, (see picture) to get to the pump, ?and yesterday I pulled the 8 fuel lines and the pump.
But the pump seems to be ok, at least it spins freely, doesn’t appear to be jammed or damaged. Which means that it might be something more serious in the cylinder-head, or piston related. Or it could be a stuck valve. I also wanted to do a compression test on the cylinders, but in order to do that you have to pull the injectors, all eight of them, and some of them were blocked by the valve covers. So I pulled the valve covers, and all the valves are closing and there is no broken pushrods or anything funny looking going on (see picture).?
.
So next I pulled all the injectors (see picture) They looked kinda blocked up, and I bet cleaning them would make a big difference with fuel consumption – IF I can ever repair this thing! ? With the injectors out there would be no compression resistance in the cylinders (similar to pulling the spark plugs on a gasoline engine) and that would help me to narrow in on the problem.
I put the injection pump back in and reconnected the batteries so that I could spin the engine with the starter motor, and it spun really easily! Which was really good news, but also confusing; If the injection pump is not slowing down the engine, and the valves are all opening and closing, then why would the truck be spinning at slow rpms? (A good mechanic would have figured it out by now but there was one more thing for me to try...) Probably the no fuel at the injectors is a result of the low rpms too, because I learned the the injection pump needs a certain amount of pressure from the speed of the engine to properly function. So, it’s not fuel, not pump, and not a broken timing chain or pushrods or camshaft... Process of elimination.
Next was to do a compression test on each cylinder, which involves sticking a little device (similar to the thing that tells you your air pressure on your tires) into the hole where the injectors lived, and then cranking the engine to get a pressure reading. Well cylinders 1 & 2 weren’t reading much pressure at all, like 50 or 60 lbs, when it should be between 300 & 400lbs! But maybe the device wasn’t working properly. However, when I tried the third cylinder, so much pressure built up by the third crank that I couldn’t hold the device in the hole! It maxed at 160lbs – not an accurate reading, but I didn’t need the device to tell me that there was no compression in the first two cylinders! I continued checking the rest of the cylinders and turns out that 1,2 and 6 were bad. Something was wrong inside those cylinder heads... obviously affecting the compression.... But it could be a mechanical failure, so I drained the oil to make sure there wasn’t any bits of metal swimming around down there and it looked good.
Ok now I’ve gone as far as I can without removing the head. I was considering removing the oil pan to check the mechanics from beneath the engine, but then my friend Phil did some research online and deducted what the problem most likely is; A blown Head Gasket! The 6.2L Chevy diesel engine is prone to head gasket failures because of a small gap between the cylinder and the coolant channel near some of the cylinders. We looked in the radiator and discovered low levels of fluid and gunked up water, which means that oil is getting blown out into the coolant, another sure sign.
So the good news is I can do the repairs myself – I’m already half-way there with so much pulled off the engine. The bad news is that I HAVE to do it myself cause I can’t afford to pay a mechanic... And the next month and 1/2 are crazy busy... The other concern I have is that I won’t remember how it all goes back together! Or that I won’t put it back according to specs.... Or I might forget tighten a bolt enough or too much.
Anyhow that’s the saga, the mystery, the story and the possible solution! I’ve been learning a lot and I’ll probably never get this dirt out from ‘neath my nails.
Thanks Mom and Dad for the loaner truck in the meantime, it is saving my but.
Love you all! Send some magic!
Thomas
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Tom Sepe
APSARA
www.apsaralivingart.org
thomas@ apsaralivingart.org
510-499-0946
(This might get a little technical for some, but I thought I’d share with you all where my head’s been at with my veggie oil truck since it died a couple months ago.)
Well, I think I figured out what is wrong with my truck. Here’s the story:
It died on the freeway a couple months ago and I had it towed to my studio. I had gotten a lot of water in my veggie oil from a collection at a restaurant where the lid was off the barrel in the rain, so my first thought was just a fuel problem. But switching to biodiesel, and changing all the filters didn’t solve the problem, plus now the engine wasn’t cranking at normal speed, it was really slow.
I replaced the starter and checked the batteries, cables and connections, but it was still turning over too slowly, plus there was no fuel reaching the engine. The mechanical fuel pump was working, (I had fuel coming out at the filter) but nothing was coming out of the injector lines when I cracked them open.
So my first guess was the injection pump, so I had to remove the intake manifold and all the fuel lines to pull the pump, which I thought would be really hard but I’ve been taking it in stages. Last week I took off the intake manifold, (see picture) to get to the pump, ?and yesterday I pulled the 8 fuel lines and the pump.
But the pump seems to be ok, at least it spins freely, doesn’t appear to be jammed or damaged. Which means that it might be something more serious in the cylinder-head, or piston related. Or it could be a stuck valve. I also wanted to do a compression test on the cylinders, but in order to do that you have to pull the injectors, all eight of them, and some of them were blocked by the valve covers. So I pulled the valve covers, and all the valves are closing and there is no broken pushrods or anything funny looking going on (see picture).?
.
So next I pulled all the injectors (see picture) They looked kinda blocked up, and I bet cleaning them would make a big difference with fuel consumption – IF I can ever repair this thing! ? With the injectors out there would be no compression resistance in the cylinders (similar to pulling the spark plugs on a gasoline engine) and that would help me to narrow in on the problem.
I put the injection pump back in and reconnected the batteries so that I could spin the engine with the starter motor, and it spun really easily! Which was really good news, but also confusing; If the injection pump is not slowing down the engine, and the valves are all opening and closing, then why would the truck be spinning at slow rpms? (A good mechanic would have figured it out by now but there was one more thing for me to try...) Probably the no fuel at the injectors is a result of the low rpms too, because I learned the the injection pump needs a certain amount of pressure from the speed of the engine to properly function. So, it’s not fuel, not pump, and not a broken timing chain or pushrods or camshaft... Process of elimination.
Next was to do a compression test on each cylinder, which involves sticking a little device (similar to the thing that tells you your air pressure on your tires) into the hole where the injectors lived, and then cranking the engine to get a pressure reading. Well cylinders 1 & 2 weren’t reading much pressure at all, like 50 or 60 lbs, when it should be between 300 & 400lbs! But maybe the device wasn’t working properly. However, when I tried the third cylinder, so much pressure built up by the third crank that I couldn’t hold the device in the hole! It maxed at 160lbs – not an accurate reading, but I didn’t need the device to tell me that there was no compression in the first two cylinders! I continued checking the rest of the cylinders and turns out that 1,2 and 6 were bad. Something was wrong inside those cylinder heads... obviously affecting the compression.... But it could be a mechanical failure, so I drained the oil to make sure there wasn’t any bits of metal swimming around down there and it looked good.
Ok now I’ve gone as far as I can without removing the head. I was considering removing the oil pan to check the mechanics from beneath the engine, but then my friend Phil did some research online and deducted what the problem most likely is; A blown Head Gasket! The 6.2L Chevy diesel engine is prone to head gasket failures because of a small gap between the cylinder and the coolant channel near some of the cylinders. We looked in the radiator and discovered low levels of fluid and gunked up water, which means that oil is getting blown out into the coolant, another sure sign.
So the good news is I can do the repairs myself – I’m already half-way there with so much pulled off the engine. The bad news is that I HAVE to do it myself cause I can’t afford to pay a mechanic... And the next month and 1/2 are crazy busy... The other concern I have is that I won’t remember how it all goes back together! Or that I won’t put it back according to specs.... Or I might forget tighten a bolt enough or too much.
Anyhow that’s the saga, the mystery, the story and the possible solution! I’ve been learning a lot and I’ll probably never get this dirt out from ‘neath my nails.
Thanks Mom and Dad for the loaner truck in the meantime, it is saving my but.
Love you all! Send some magic!
Thomas
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Tom Sepe
APSARA
www.apsaralivingart.org
thomas@ apsaralivingart.org
510-499-0946
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Re: Veggie Oil Chevy 6.2L Diesel Dead! - The Story Continues...
Thu, July 21, 2005 - 4:04 PMOuch. What a lot of work.
Anytime the cranking is slow, I now immediately suspect the batteries. These things NEED full power to fire up. I struggled with batts that measured fine until I finally just bought new ones out of sheer frustration. Problem solved. But...:
Yep, the milky gunk in the radiator is a sure sign of oil to water leak, which is almost always a head gasket. Might be a good idea to check for other oil/water seals before plunging into pulling the heads though. And btw, diesels need very frequent flushing & replacement of the coolant due to electrolysis that is much more prevalent due to the blow by inherent in these high compression motors. Pays for itself in spades.
I'm still unsure of the source of the low cranking speed... a blown head gasket would tend to cause the opposite effect, unless I'm missing something... (though if the batts were low... )
One more suggestion: You might try to borrow a leakdown tester and test the "good" cylinders before tearing the heads off. If those cyls aren't holding pressure very well, now would be the time to replace the rings as well, or bite the bullet and have the bottom end done before you put it all back together, only to have to repeat the process soon due to burning oil... how many miles does the motor have, do you know?
Tip: DO NOT, under any circumstances, have Economy Engines in Hayward do any work for you. They're very cheap... for a very good reason.
I junked my 6.2 in favor of the slightly later model 6.5, just because it was actually designed as a diesel motor from the outset. The 6.2 started life as a gas motor, and was modified for diesel use prior to the introduction of the 6.5. Which, btw, is almost a drop in replcmt, with only the fan spacer requiring modification to allow correct positioning. (Just in case your 6.2 turns out to have deeper problems.) Power and low end torque (pull) feel much better with the 6.5, not that I need to get anywhere in a big hurry, but when it's loaded with sound gear and generator and pulling a big trailer, these things help. A lot.
Thanks much for writing this up, hope it helps someone else. If you run into more probs, post them or msg me, I've been through the gamut with my 6.5... almost done... I pray. Once it runs perfectly, it's on to the grease conversion.
Let me know if you need to borrow a good torque wrench.
<directing much positive greasy automotive juju in your direction>
PS: How's the firetruck? :) -
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Re: Veggie Oil Chevy 6.2L Diesel Dead! - The Story Continues...
Fri, July 29, 2005 - 11:06 PMThanks! The firetruck by the way has been in teh very capable hands of the Crucible where they have restored parts and transmorgrified others so that now it is thier flagship outreach vehicle.... very cool.
Well, I wish I had done a full compression test and a leakdown test on all the cylinders. But i didn't. I got the heads back from the machine shop and they are in great shape. i have new gaskets and new head bolts and tomorrow I will start cleaning the block and perhaps on sunday the reassembly. unfortunately a lot of the parts I want (like new injectors, return lines, glow plug controller) won't be arriving until after thursday and then I'm gone for a week cooking in Mendocino, so I probably won't finish installing the new injection pump till then.
Oh That is what I've determined that the main problem was... water in my veggie oil . siezed the IP and broke the main shaft. I have a rebuilt pump coming next week. I think the bad compression was from water in the cylinders... but I don't know. I guess I can still do a compression test with the old injectors and the new head gasket... although you'r supposed to run the vehicle to get hte gaskets to seal properly, no? hmmm
anyhow... that's the story. I might get on ebay and try to order some other parts... I may not even need to replace the injectors... I'm going to pop test them sat.
hmmm more later.. Send me your email and I'll give you the link to where I'll be posting the ongoing story. Also do you know about thedieselpage.com ? its a great resource and I subscribed and the forums are great!
Cheers!
Thomas
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Re: Veggie Oil Chevy 6.2L Diesel Dead! - The Story Continues...
Wed, December 14, 2005 - 10:42 PMYou are absolutely wrong about the 6.2 starting life as a gas motor. You are thinking of the 5.7 olds that was originally a gas motor. The 6.2 is a slow turd, but is stone-cold reliable. Add a banks turbo (like mine) and it becomes marginally acceptable. -
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Re: Veggie Oil Chevy 6.2L Diesel Dead! - The Story Continues...
Tue, April 24, 2007 - 12:26 PMIndeed. I stand corrected. I made the mistake of repeating what my mechanic told me about the 6.2, and given the quality of his work, I can't say that it was very wise of me to trust his knowledge on this subject either. :)
My 6.5 in a 3/4 ton 4wd Suburban has surprisingly acceptable pull, even for passing. (No turbo, 4.10 gears). But it does wind out around 70mph. Time for an overdrive.
My understanding is that there is very little difference between the 6.2 and 6.5 incarnations of this motor aside from the overbore, until you get to around 2001 or so, when the block was reinforced somewhat.
FYI, this motor is still in production, and is the standard powerplant for most of the AM General military vehicles still being sold into service currently. AM General bought the design and tooling from GM, and now sells crate motors under the GEP "Optimizer" lable. And most surpising of all, the price is roughly equivalent to any other GM crate motor... $6-7k. When my motor gives up or I hit the lottery, this is the route I'm going. 6.5 intercooled turbo.
Also, "Diesel Power" magazine has a project underwayin which they're building up one of these Optimizer motors. Should be interesting to see how it benefits from some of the advances in Diesel design over the past 20 years. The latest Duramax is a monster.
Now if I could just squeeze some of those great mileage #'s out of mine... I'm still in the 14 mpg range. :(
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